Part of the issue is that having kids has become mixed up with personal development to the extent that procreation is seen as one of many possibilities to achieve personal satisfaction. It is our responsibility as part of the human race to see the survival of the species. But talking about responsibility is not a life affirming discussion. And it can be both, responsibility and satisfaction. Our culture is so pain/suffering adverse that we avoid it to our detriment. Sometimes the right thing is the difficult thing. Sometimes sacrifice is the only way to achieve that which is worthwhile.
Yes, this is an along the lines of Stephanie's point! I think it's right -- and, as you suggest, tied up in a bigger cultural deficit around how we think of duty
I agree with this, partially because (and I know not everyone feels this way!) becoming a parent didn't feel like an enormous transformative experience for me. It mostly does feel normal! And that's sort of disappointing to some maybe but I think also reassuring--for example, like other types of work, it often involves doing stuff you don't feel like doing. But then I think it's also mostly manageable in the way that other types of work are (make sure you get regular breaks and you'll be fine).
yes! Obviously there are people for whom it IS transformative, plus people (not necessarily the same group, though hopefully overlapping) who WANT it to totally change them, but I think we need to be clearer that not everyone is in one or both of those camps
I am with you, Bonnie. As we raised two through the '80's, I realized the energy we pout out and trouble we experienced (which wasn't terrible) resulted in two children that are blessings to others. In the world we want productive members of society. For Jesus' sake we want to raise kids who bear witness to Jesus. Roughly a year and a half ago I connected, and am now fully plugged in to a new church. It was well established but new for me. A young mom wore a sweatshirt reading, "Raising Disciples". I went right up to her and am now friends with her and her husband. She just had her third. At this church the babies are popping out like crazy. It's a beautiful thing.
I agree with all the good things you say about kids, and understand how impolitic our normal approach is. But maybe focusing on another aspect, while just as unpleasant, might work.
To be honest, I'm a bit older and am seeing my kids do adult-type stuff now, which is kind of cool. But for folks who aren't at that stage yet it can seem like a long haul.
Imagine this: your car breaks down and, for some reason, you have to walk 10 miles. Now, aside from concerns about your car, this is a good thing: you've gotten way more exercise than you planned. Having kids can be the same: the change can be so dramatic because kids make you endure more than you'd otherwise voluntarily endure. Just like car problems can cause an unplanned hike, kids can provide an unplanned departure from plans and life goals.
If we focus on the good character change maybe people will accept it.
I personally think awaiting the kids' eventual accomplishments or youthful beauty isn't fruitful: it can lead to manipulation, expecting them to look good so you'll look good. Not healthy.
Part of the issue is that having kids has become mixed up with personal development to the extent that procreation is seen as one of many possibilities to achieve personal satisfaction. It is our responsibility as part of the human race to see the survival of the species. But talking about responsibility is not a life affirming discussion. And it can be both, responsibility and satisfaction. Our culture is so pain/suffering adverse that we avoid it to our detriment. Sometimes the right thing is the difficult thing. Sometimes sacrifice is the only way to achieve that which is worthwhile.
Yes, this is an along the lines of Stephanie's point! I think it's right -- and, as you suggest, tied up in a bigger cultural deficit around how we think of duty
I agree with this, partially because (and I know not everyone feels this way!) becoming a parent didn't feel like an enormous transformative experience for me. It mostly does feel normal! And that's sort of disappointing to some maybe but I think also reassuring--for example, like other types of work, it often involves doing stuff you don't feel like doing. But then I think it's also mostly manageable in the way that other types of work are (make sure you get regular breaks and you'll be fine).
yes! Obviously there are people for whom it IS transformative, plus people (not necessarily the same group, though hopefully overlapping) who WANT it to totally change them, but I think we need to be clearer that not everyone is in one or both of those camps
True and witty: "an identity wild card."
thanks, Marvin :)
I am with you, Bonnie. As we raised two through the '80's, I realized the energy we pout out and trouble we experienced (which wasn't terrible) resulted in two children that are blessings to others. In the world we want productive members of society. For Jesus' sake we want to raise kids who bear witness to Jesus. Roughly a year and a half ago I connected, and am now fully plugged in to a new church. It was well established but new for me. A young mom wore a sweatshirt reading, "Raising Disciples". I went right up to her and am now friends with her and her husband. She just had her third. At this church the babies are popping out like crazy. It's a beautiful thing.
I agree with all the good things you say about kids, and understand how impolitic our normal approach is. But maybe focusing on another aspect, while just as unpleasant, might work.
To be honest, I'm a bit older and am seeing my kids do adult-type stuff now, which is kind of cool. But for folks who aren't at that stage yet it can seem like a long haul.
Imagine this: your car breaks down and, for some reason, you have to walk 10 miles. Now, aside from concerns about your car, this is a good thing: you've gotten way more exercise than you planned. Having kids can be the same: the change can be so dramatic because kids make you endure more than you'd otherwise voluntarily endure. Just like car problems can cause an unplanned hike, kids can provide an unplanned departure from plans and life goals.
If we focus on the good character change maybe people will accept it.
I personally think awaiting the kids' eventual accomplishments or youthful beauty isn't fruitful: it can lead to manipulation, expecting them to look good so you'll look good. Not healthy.